Nightmare getting sand

FWIW I've used white quarts sand blasting sand for the last 7 years in my
80. This is a tropical tank- natural plants and lots of cories, clowns and
other bottom fish. Sand has had no bad effects on the fish (assumed barble
damage). Chemically stable. Should be fine for the GF as well
SamB


"Gunther" wrote in message

> In article , Geezer RemoveThis @Freezer.com says...
> > I'm having a nightmare getting any aquarium sand from any of my
> > LFS. Should I just go to one of the DIY places and by a bag from
> > there and wash it?
> >
> Yeah, just get some builder's sand or sand-box sand.
> Wash/rinse well, then do a 24-hour pH test to make
> sure it stays stable.
>
> G
 >> Stay informed about: Nightmare getting sand 

I've been told since to stay away from sand, several people
on a discussion page suggest that sand can get in the gill
and irritate my fish. They also said it was difficult to clean
(vacuum) - any thoughts? If I can't use sand, and fine gravel
is a no no, then do I go for mid to large pebbles?
 >> Stay informed about: Nightmare getting sand 

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:15:23 +0100, Geezer From The Freezer
wrote:

>I've been told since to stay away from sand, several people
>on a discussion page suggest that sand can get in the gill
>and irritate my fish. They also said it was difficult to clean
>(vacuum) - any thoughts? If I can't use sand, and fine gravel
>is a no no, then do I go for mid to large pebbles?

Think about that one for a while. In the wild most ponds and
rivers contain sand. Fish gills are adapted to work with it.

I found some heat treated play sand at the Building Box that
I used in two of my three tanks. The third one I had to use
regular building sand. All of my fish are fat sassy and
growing like weeds.

Just make sure you rinse it until all the dust is gone. It is a
chore, but that will be easier on your filter in the long run.


Azul
 >> Stay informed about: Nightmare getting sand 

Fancies, while derived from Carp, are not 'wild' fish. I would surmise
that for thousands of years the strain that gives us most fancies
probably come from slow moving, probably silty and muddy lakes, ponds,
etc. where rocks are more present than what we think of as sand.

just a guess.

I was going to do sand, but given the compacting issues, it seems you
are hoping that it gets compacted enough to not allow bacteria to
flourish.

Others have written that their fish turn the sand over enough to
prevent the compacting, etc.

i have gone bare bottom. (My wife keeps telling me to get my pants
on...)


Azul wrote in message ...
> On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:15:23 +0100, Geezer From The Freezer
> wrote:
>
> >I've been told since to stay away from sand, several people
> >on a discussion page suggest that sand can get in the gill
> >and irritate my fish. They also said it was difficult to clean
> >(vacuum) - any thoughts? If I can't use sand, and fine gravel
> >is a no no, then do I go for mid to large pebbles?
>
> Think about that one for a while. In the wild most ponds and
> rivers contain sand. Fish gills are adapted to work with it.
>
> I found some heat treated play sand at the Building Box that
> I used in two of my three tanks. The third one I had to use
> regular building sand. All of my fish are fat sassy and
> growing like weeds.
>
> Just make sure you rinse it until all the dust is gone. It is a
> chore, but that will be easier on your filter in the long run.
>
>
> Azul
 >> Stay informed about: Nightmare getting sand 

>I've been told since to stay away from sand, several people
>on a discussion page suggest that sand can get in the gill
>and irritate my fish. They also said it was difficult to clean
>(vacuum) - any thoughts? If I can't use sand, and fine gravel
>is a no no, then do I go for mid to large pebbles?

The finer the sand the better. I bought reef sand from LFS, it was colored.
There is a black sand with specks in it that is also nice, moontone is the
color I think, forgot the brand.
It does not irritate gills and needs no cleaning. I've been using it for years
and it's the cleanest bottom going. Use a thin layer.
 >> Stay informed about: Nightmare getting sand 

"BErney1014" wrote in message

>
> The finer the sand the better. I bought reef sand from LFS, it was
colored.
> There is a black sand with specks in it that is also nice, moontone is the
> color I think, forgot the brand.
> It does not irritate gills and needs no cleaning. I've been using it for
years
> and it's the cleanest bottom going. Use a thin layer.

this is the type i use. i love the look. it does keep a spotless bottom.
the fish enjoy it....however.....i can't tell you how many times i've awoken
to a grinding filter or came home and it's stopped all together due to a
sand build up in the parts. this sand is like a powder....very very fine.
if i had to do it all over again i would use a coarser sand. overall it is
so much better then gravel. i remember how much gunk got caught in it and
really, there is NONE in my tank now. after 3 months of having the sand, it
does seem to be settling down now, or maybe all the finer sand is gone...i
haven't had the filter problems in about 2 weeks, so hopefully my one
complaint is going away?

anther thought, this sand was very expensive! geesh, it cost me $40 for my
46 gallon tank. also, it said that it came pre rinsed and all. i still had
to rinse it several times (6 or more) and then my tank still clouded over
when i put it in. i had to take most of the water out, then add...but after
about 1 hour of running the filter the tank water was clear and never did
cloud up again.

best regards,
connie
 >> Stay informed about: Nightmare getting sand 

BErney1014 wrote:
>
> >I've been told since to stay away from sand, several people
> >on a discussion page suggest that sand can get in the gill
> >and irritate my fish. They also said it was difficult to clean
> >(vacuum) - any thoughts? If I can't use sand, and fine gravel
> >is a no no, then do I go for mid to large pebbles?
>
> The finer the sand the better. I bought reef sand from LFS, it was colored.
> There is a black sand with specks in it that is also nice, moontone is the
> color I think, forgot the brand.
> It does not irritate gills and needs no cleaning. I've been using it for years
> and it's the cleanest bottom going. Use a thin layer.

Berney,

Appreciate your input. Others have said sand is a no no. It's hard
to know who to listen to. I've had pretty good success in keeping
my fish in the last 8 months or so in a 10 gallon, but now they will
be going into a 240 Litre tank, I want to make sure that I get it
right first time. It'll not be fun taking substrate out after I've
commited and the fish and water are in the tank.
 >> Stay informed about: Nightmare getting sand 

In article , Geezer.DeleteThis@Freezer.com says...
> Appreciate your input. Others have said sand is a no no. It's hard
> to know who to listen to.
>
Well, this is going to get me flamed, but I say don't worry so much.
I've been lurking on the group for some time now. While I've garnered
some helpful information, I've also gotten the impression that these
folks want the absolute optimum environment for goldfish. They're not
THAT finicky!

As I think I mentioned on this group before, many years ago I kept two
shubunkins in a 5 or 10 gallon tank for several years. Bare bottom, no
filter or aereation, just frequent water changes. They finally died when
my little sister (about 5 years old at the time) dumped an entire box of
food into the tank when I was away.

I certainly don't recommend that people emulate what I did as a child,
but it does go to show that goldfish are resilient.

Sand may irritate gills, but gravel can get stuck in the throat. Take
your pick. I prefer sand myself, but don't claim it's the "only" way :-
).

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
 >> Stay informed about: Nightmare getting sand 

Ingrid,

What would you suggest I use as a substrate then?

Ozz
 >> Stay informed about: Nightmare getting sand 

> Others have said sand is a no no. It's hard
>to know who to listen to.


The facts are simple to understand:
Fine sand is worked by goldfish, they blow jets of water into it to loosen food
bits. Goldfish are foragers, it's good for them to use their instincts, the
environment stresses them otherwise. Large sand/small gravel is picked up and
spit out. One tank I use onyx sand (seachem) and the fish peck through it all
day. It's a blue gray color, a little on the cool side. Onyx is a multi grade
sand and has some ultra fine grains.
I used fine colored reef sand by Estes, I think, and the fish blew jets of
water to fluff out any edible bits. The bottom doesn't get algae because they
always move it.
Goldfish have an eye/brain path that controls color intensity. A light bottom
creates a paler fish. Dark will give the best color saturation.
When cleaning, sand will go up a python tube only so far and begin to fall
back. A longer tube is probably better. If you've ever seen a fluid bed you
will understand. If the sand does start to exit, a pinch on the hose will stop
it.
Keeping the filter intake above the level fish kick up sand will prevent
impeller magnet jams.
Sand will compact if too deep for the fish to move, that's why a thin layer is
suggested. It's also natural for finer grains to sink and larger grains to
surface.
good luck
 >> Stay informed about: Nightmare getting sand 

how about this.....

a think layer of sand and a layer of cobbled stones (too big for mouths)
and big rocks for effect? The cobbled stones should sit nicely on the
sand (and not damage the bottom glass) and the sand should be covered
so that not too much is disturbed into the water ?
 >> Stay informed about: Nightmare getting sand 

Some use glass marbles on the bottom of the tank. You can get bags of them at
the craft stores (eg Michael's). The fish don't choke on them, it's easy to
clean, and I've read that small fry can hide there to keep from being eaten by
the parents... Looks pretty too. I have gravel right now, but getting worried
about it, as when the fish were smaller, they couldn't get it all in their
mouths. The gravel is getting ground down a bit and the fish are larger. I'll
have to see which is heavier.... It may be a close call..
 >> Stay informed about: Nightmare getting sand 

We're getting into alot of personal opinions here, and I thought I would add
my own.

I have worked in aggregate as a heavy equipment operator for a number of
years. No, this doesn't mean I'm an expert on substrate, but I do know
sand. I am surprised someone would use the fine sand, such as "brick sand"
or as someone else described it "toy box sand". This sand is very fine and
powdery. I would say it would pack down ok, but I can also see it clogging
filters and being hard to vacuum, IMO.

I use coarse sand, called Concrete sand (not brick, but concrete; used to
make cement, not mortar). When you bring it home, put it in a smaller
bucket and fill with water, then stir and drain. All the heavier particles
will sink right away, and the dust will float. You will have to repeat this
many times to get it good and clean. When vacuuming, put a small container
inside the bucket you siphon into. If you do siphon any sand up, the sand
stays in the container and the water overflows into the bucket so you can
save the sand if you need to.

Everyone has a different opinion on this subject and I just went through the
same debate myself. I chose the concrete sand because I like the
cleanliness of a bare bottom, but I don't like the look. Every little thing
drove me nuts and I was constantly siphoning things out of it, but the sand
isn't the same. I have a few snails which eat any food particles on top of
the sand, and the fish root through it like gravel. It's not gritty like
brick sand is so I don't worry about the gills, and it doesn't "splash up"
when the fish push their noses into it. I did shorten my intake hose for my
Emperor filter to compensate, but I have had no problems, including very
little sand in the filter itself.

You have to base your decision on your personal preference. I got lots of
opinions as well, but most are just personal opinions based on cosmetics, or
past experiences. Good luck, and I hope you find something you are happy
with.

Tammy

"Geezer From The Freezer" wrote in message

>
>
> BErney1014 wrote:
> >
> > >I've been told since to stay away from sand, several people
> > >on a discussion page suggest that sand can get in the gill
> > >and irritate my fish. They also said it was difficult to clean
> > >(vacuum) - any thoughts? If I can't use sand, and fine gravel
> > >is a no no, then do I go for mid to large pebbles?
> >
> > The finer the sand the better. I bought reef sand from LFS, it was
colored.
> > There is a black sand with specks in it that is also nice, moontone is
the
> > color I think, forgot the brand.
> > It does not irritate gills and needs no cleaning. I've been using it for
years
> > and it's the cleanest bottom going. Use a thin layer.
>
> Berney,
>
> Appreciate your input. Others have said sand is a no no. It's hard
> to know who to listen to. I've had pretty good success in keeping
> my fish in the last 8 months or so in a 10 gallon, but now they will
> be going into a 240 Litre tank, I want to make sure that I get it
> right first time. It'll not be fun taking substrate out after I've
> commited and the fish and water are in the tank.
 >> Stay informed about: Nightmare getting sand